Comic 505 - And Emily Reveals...

11th Mar 2014, 4:43 PM in Ch. 20: Just a Quiet Weekend
And Emily Reveals...
Average Rating: 5 (15 votes)
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Author Notes:

Jocelyn 11th Mar 2014, 4:43 PM edit delete
Oh man! I am SO glad to finally get this out there. I feel like I planned this forever ago.

People have been demanding a character of this sort for a while. I'm certainly happy to accommodate too! Of course, this has been planned for a long time, but I needed the right time to bring it up and make it work. Not to mention, because there IS a lot of confusion as to what it actually means, I wanted to make sure I could explain it properly alongside the reveal (alongside the mention of a few common misconceptions).

I... hope I achieved all of this.

[EDIT] - Please stop sending me links or trying to teach me how wrong I am (or in the handful of extreme cases, accusing me of things I never said or outright attacking me; yes, that's happened). For every person telling me the description on the above page is wrong, there is another telling me it's right. I'm not saying that makes me right. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. I've done research though and I know plenty of people who identify by these labels, and this was simply the answer I came to. That said, according to other commentary I've read, there is more than one possible definition which can vary depending on the individual, or where or when someone learned it. And according to another source, even professional sex educators and academic sexologists can't agree on the definitions.

However, given that accuracy and not offending people is very important to me, I'm going to get to the bottom of this. I will be continuing to research and will alter the page's dialogue in the future. Please be patient. It might not be immediate, as this is proving to be an extremely complex and sensitive subject. You don't need to remind me that it's wrong, because I'm already working on it.

Thank you for your patience and your cooperation.

Rain, all characters and all other aspects of the story are copyright material belonging to me.
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Karen Lynn 11th Mar 2014, 4:56 PM edit delete reply
That's pretty much word for word how I explain being Pan to others.
Aislinn 11th Mar 2014, 5:06 PM edit delete reply
Works for me! Also, the image-bubble with Emily and a pan is hilarious. :D
drs 11th Mar 2014, 5:36 PM edit delete reply
Kylie looks surprised.
Rain looks... more than surprised.
Nightsky 11th Mar 2014, 5:54 PM edit delete reply
I thought that's what pan meant, but when I tried to say that a bunch of people got angry. I said some other stuff too (I have trouble wording things to NOT sound offensive sometimes... ;_; ), but the pan/bi reaction bothered me a bit. I see a lot of people claim they're the same, but...

Though it amuses me that people actually think that pansexuality refers to pans. I'd think it would be exclusive to parodies or fiction, but after telling someone about asexuality and getting the infamous "you mean like budding" line I wouldn't be surprised... -_-;
drs 11th Mar 2014, 7:06 PM edit delete reply
gender-neutral language note: the oddity of "you guys" here.
Top Hat 11th Mar 2014, 7:53 PM edit delete reply
Top Hat
It actually doesn't seem that odd to me, but I think it is a regional thing. Where I live "you guys" can refer to a group of people regardless of gender. It is equivalent to "y'all" in the south of the United States.

I have come across this before when a girl recently moved to my town. I walked up the group she was in and said, "Hey, guys." She then acted offended and told me she was a girl. Which was confusing to me because I knew she was a girl.
drs 12th Mar 2014, 12:04 PM edit delete reply
No, I know it often has that use. It's still funny, given that everyone in the comic room is presenting as female; and it's also still odd and maybe problematic, given that singular 'guy' is *not* gender-neutral. "Rain is such a great guy."

Kind of like how in Spanish a bunch of women are ellas, but a bunch of women and one man are ellos. One-drop rule for masculinity.
Except "you guys" will get used for all women, too.

Note I'm not saying it's unrealistic for Emily to be using it that way, it's not, as you say. But it is odd if you think about it.
Dr. Smart 9th Jul 2015, 8:43 AM edit delete reply
I have a habit of calling everyone male or female "dude" which is usually fine but sometimes gets a similar reaction to what you explained
Moon Warrior 11th Mar 2014, 7:50 PM edit delete reply
Moon Warrior
i dont want to be rly nitpicky here but there are people who are bisexual and attracted to two genders outside of male and female??
Ranthog 11th Mar 2014, 9:43 PM edit delete reply
Labels are boxes and life rarely colors inside the lines. Things get complex, and fuzzy.
Kara 11th Mar 2014, 10:39 PM edit delete reply
Yeah, I agree with Moon Warrior. A lot of people use bisexuality as "attraction to one's own gender and other genders" or "attraction to more than one gender." Some people still use it as attraction to the binary genders, but it's getting less common. However, I know that when I first started identifying as pan, I chose it because I thought bisexual might only the two genders. Now I use bisexual and pansexual interchangeably depending on who I'm talking to.

I wasn't shipping Rain and Emily before, but after Rain's reaction...
j-eagle12212012 11th Mar 2014, 8:32 PM edit delete reply
Pssst Rain...
Now would be the time to come out to Emily seeing that she just opened up big time.

Also I believe pansexual is more commonly used nowadays, but unless it applies to people who are actually attracted to people of any gender I think it gets misused. If I'm wrong here let me know.
For example

A Cis-Female who has attractions towards other cis-females and trans-men but not towards cis-men,trans-woman,genderfluid,etc... can't be considered pansexual correct?
no 10th Nov 2020, 1:59 AM edit delete reply
years late but yes, correct
Florence 11th Mar 2014, 11:15 PM edit delete reply
I hate to be that girl, but the definitions here are a bit off. "Pansexual" does indeed mean attraction to all genders, but "bisexual" does not mean "attraction to both genders" or "to both men and women." All major bisexual advocacy groups define bisexuality as (more or less) potential attraction to more than one gender (although, I should note, some organizations define it as attraction to similar gender's to one's own, as well as other genders). A bisexual could be attracted to two, three, many, or all genders (implying that pansexuality is a subset of bisexuality--although I respect that not all pansexuals label themselves as bi). The reason it's still called "bisexuality" is because the term was reclaimed by bisexuals from medical institutions.
Sorry if I'm being annoying and nitpicky, just wanted to clear this up :P great comic though, and excellent revelation!!
Jude P. 12th Mar 2014, 7:29 AM edit delete reply
Yeah, every person I know who identifies as bi defines their sexuality as "capable of being attracted to people regardless of gender" or "capable of being attracted to members of any gender group."
Florence 12th Mar 2014, 6:18 PM edit delete reply
Well I want to stress that not all bisexuals are pansexual, i.e. not all bisexuals are attracted regardless of gender/to all genders. In order to call oneself bisexual, one must merely have the potential to be attracted to people multiple gender identities. E.g. some bisexuals might be attracted to men and women, or just men, women and androgynes, or all genders.
LQ 11th Mar 2014, 11:30 PM edit delete reply
\o/ Pan joke!

Rain *needs* to come out to Emily now. we can ship them harder.
Florence 11th Mar 2014, 11:32 PM edit delete reply
yes, please!!
Jen Done 12th Mar 2014, 12:38 AM edit delete reply
*flustered by the prospect of the ship actually pulling through* Kya! <_< Kya! >_> Kyaaaa! @_@
Moor 12th Mar 2014, 1:10 AM edit delete reply

Regarding the "Bi doesn't mean that" thing (Note: Not speaking as a Bi person, or with a large amount of experience with any Bi communities) -- I've usually seen Bi and Pan differentiated by Pansexuality is where gender doesn't factor into it at all, whereas Bisexuality is where gender doesn't limit it. So like, a Bisexual person would be in a different sort of relationship if they were with a woman than with a man, or an agender person, or a genderqueer person, etc.

But that's just one "what's the difference" that I think I've seen a lot (and I could definitely be biased because I think that's such a cool idea of distinguishing those), and I honestly have no idea what people really think of that in Bi or Pan communities.

Personally, as a math(s) person, I feel like sexual identities should just be described as the set of all relationships the person would be comfortable in.

... Whaddaya mean that would be impractical because it's not worth using at-least-sentence-long-and-theoretically-unbounded sexual identities just for accuracy's sake?!?..
Moor 12th Mar 2014, 1:11 AM edit delete reply
(Oh wow that first part was ambigious. The "Infodump!" was a "Yay! It's an Infodump!" -- not a "Here's an infodump I'm gonna give y'all!".)
rachelevil 12th Mar 2014, 1:20 AM edit delete reply
As I said on Monday, I knew it.

Also, panel 5 is great.
Kyla 12th Mar 2014, 4:13 AM edit delete reply
There is no better time. RAIN TELL HER!!!!
Calli 12th Mar 2014, 4:26 AM edit delete reply
Bi - attracted to men and women
Pan - attracted to men, women, and non-binary people

Trans men *are* men, and trans women *are* women, so both Bi and Pan people can be attracted to us. Including trans people in the Pan list implies that we aren't really men and women, since Bi people aren't attracted to us.

I am a trans woman, which means I am a woman. Straight men, gay women, bi people, and pan people can all be attracted to me.
Jocelyn 12th Mar 2014, 7:05 AM edit delete reply

That isn't what was said. I know trans men are men and trans women are women. I know bisexuals can and will date trans people (I never said they can't; just that pans can). I added transgender to the list of things Emily says to stress that she is open to any kind of potential relationship. I never ever said otherwise and no such implication is intended.
Marlee-The-Creator 12th Mar 2014, 10:06 PM edit delete reply
From what I think, Jocelyn included that in the dialogue for emphasis. To put more pressure/emphasis on Rain/Rain's sexuality. And the reason for this is because there are Heterosexuals, Homosexuals, and Bisexuals who will only date cis genders of the genders that they are attracted to. I know that sounds extremely transphobic and I apologize profusely for it, but it is the truth.
Guest 15th Apr 2019, 1:32 PM edit delete reply
Fara dated Vincent and yet she identifies as bi, not pan, so obviously Jocelyn believes that bi people can be attracted to binary trans people.
Willow13 18th Sep 2020, 4:46 PM edit delete reply
Ya What Cali. Way to take things out of proportion and distort them.
Francesca Barrientos 12th Mar 2014, 7:48 AM edit delete reply
As far as dictionaries go, bisexual means attracted to both genders. The prefix "bi" means two. Like "uni" means one and "tri" means three. Bicycles have two wheels, binary consists of two numbers, etc.

bisexual |bīˈsekSHo͞oəl|
sexually attracted to both men and women.
• Biology having characteristics of both sexes.
a person who is sexually attracted to both men and women.
bisexuality |ˌbīsekSHo͞oˈalitē| noun

pansexual |panˈsekSHo͞oəl|
not limited or inhibited in sexual choice with regard to gender or activity.
a pansexual person.
pansexuality |-ˌsekSHo͞oˈalitē| noun
Alice 23rd Apr 2014, 9:54 PM edit delete reply
according to what you're saying here, gay people are always supposed to be happy then, right? because the first definition of the word was "having or showing a merry, lively mood".
us bisexual people didn't choose that word, and i won't be defined by what the dictionary says.
LQ 12th Mar 2014, 4:42 PM edit delete reply
The way I see it, from a pan perspective "bisexual" can IMPLY a narrow gender-binary orientation, but doesn't necessarily exclude it, while "pansexual" explicitly describes an orientation unbounded by the binary.

So bisexuality is a superset of pansexuality, but there are some people who are bisexual who wouldn't identify as pansexual.

I've also seen people describe pansexuality as 'unconcerned with gender', basically that gender doesn't factor into physical attraction. Not necessarily different from being bisexual, but more descriptive.

Further complpicated by the fact that a lot of people simplify their identity into more broad terms; I'm homoromantic, pansexual, transgender and genderqueer, but usually just call myself a queer lesbian, or even more simply, a queer woman.
Marlee-The-Creator 12th Mar 2014, 10:02 PM edit delete reply
Lots of things just clicked in my head and I now have a new ship. Anchors away!
The Chessmaster 12th Mar 2014, 10:36 PM edit delete reply
The Chessmaster
To everyone complaining about the usage: It doesn't really matter that much. Sure, some could argue about the differences, but the correct usage is what's shown in the comic, and, regardless of common usage, whenever the two are distinguished, that's the way they should be separated.

However, I must object to the mental image they both developed. They should have been picturing a cake or pie pan, not a frying one. (Insert "hot" pun here.)
Joerg 13th Mar 2014, 6:44 AM edit delete reply
First of all, in my opinion Rain is one of the best webcomics and Jocelyn is doing a great job by bringing up themes which are widely ignored by mainstream productions. And on top I feel very entertained by reading the comic.

Please people keep in mind, that the characters opinion and what it says are as fictional as the character itself. Whatever it says or thinks is NOT nessesary the opinion of the author. And if Emily defines pansexuality the way she does, it doesn't mean that this is the one and only true definition. It is her (the fictional character) definition.

Think of the part where most of the students thought, that Rudy was "cured" from being gay. It is not the opinion of Jocelyn that gay people can be "cured" but some of the fictional charaters in the story said it. It is part of a good fictional work that characters are saying what they are beliving and not what the author is beliving.

Jocelyn does a great job because she brought up a theme which is now widely discussed and it is good to discus about definitions and labels and how we see ourselfs. But I think it is wrong to blame Jocelyn for being wrong with a definition a fictional character has given.
Caroline 13th Mar 2014, 10:27 AM edit delete reply
To the people who question the definitions: Whether there is an actual difference between bi- and pansexual is irrelevant. The point is that pansexual stresses explicitly that everyone is included, whereas bisexual does not. They may mean the same thing, as far as orientation is concerned, but using one or the other will not be perceived in the same way -- especially by someone like Rain.

The way "bisexual" is defined here is typical to how I've seen it defined by people who identify as pansexual -- which is what Emily is. Perhaps Fara would have a different definition.

*hugs Emily*

I predict there will be much Raimily shipping soon, if there wasn't yet.
Blue 17th Mar 2014, 8:34 PM edit delete reply
To throw in my two sense, I'm an asexual who identifies as polyromantic. The way I see it, Bi is towards Males and females, Pan is towards all, and Poly is towards some, but not all, and more open than bi.
Blue 17th Mar 2014, 8:35 PM edit delete reply
Two cents, sorry. Not paying enough attention to my spelling tonight.
Jax Rhapsody 18th Apr 2014, 5:48 PM edit delete reply
Okay, I hate being politically correct- but I must to make this point. Bi, very much like gay is used as a blanket term. Why do some bisexuals date more than the two genders as told by definition, because not everyone is a expert in sexual orientation in it's many forms. There for; those bi people who aren't just datimg men and women(cis, trans, whatever; men and women) probably just use Bi as an umbrella term- they might not know or heard the term pansexual. Me and my girlfriend are both pan, but we use Bi, because that's what people know. She explained it to two lesbians once and they started to back away slowly.

I'm not giving Joceyln and flak, I agree, don't jump down her throat. An attraction to all genders is the best basic way to put it. There's more to LGBT than the LGBT. I'm sorry, I know you said don't argue about it, and it's an old post. I jusy wanted to make a point not to jump on some one for (at least at this poimt) limited knowledge of what may be an obscure sexuality.
Emma 18th May 2015, 3:00 AM edit delete reply
As a trans, pansexual, polyamorous person, I'm pretty happy with the descriptions given on this page.

Also, yay! Representation!
Tualha 4th Jun 2015, 4:14 AM edit delete reply
Panel 5 for the win :)

And I think we can now officially ship Emily/Ky. Emilky? Emikylie?

The character page says Emily is straight. An oversight, or just avoiding spoilers?
Blurryface 8th Jan 2016, 2:06 AM edit delete reply
The T.C. 14th Aug 2016, 3:04 AM edit delete reply
Oh baby I love it when you use the strange bacon grease...
Lex-Kat 24th Nov 2016, 3:32 AM edit delete reply
Please Rain, come out to Emily.

Love the pan-love thought bubble, and Emily's reaction to their thoughts immediately after.
Some Ed 14th Jun 2017, 9:36 PM edit delete reply
Rain and Ky clearly don't know how one properly loves a pan. Just saying. Though I suppose that picture might not be considered all that family friendly.
Guest 12th Feb 2018, 11:53 AM edit delete reply
How I define it is:

Bi = attraction to similar and different genders, or to multiple genders
Pan = attraction regardless of gender
Troy 8th Jan 2020, 6:57 PM edit delete reply
OMG Emily is literally my favorite character now! (possibly cause i'm pan too but however)
CuteZoeyMonster 3rd Jul 2020, 3:26 AM edit delete reply
So this is my reread of the comic. Which means I can say this with absolute certainty. Emily fondling a pan is my favorite panel in this comic unless one beats it in the future after I sent this since the comic isn't actually over.
Iejir_Isk 26th May 2021, 8:02 PM edit delete reply
exact same
no 10th Nov 2020, 2:41 AM edit delete reply
btw did anybody else misread that as ky saying ¨But you´re poggers!¨?
Kori Kasai 30th Apr 2021, 10:30 PM edit delete reply
As a pansexual, this is a perfect represention
Waffle 25th Jul 2022, 10:57 AM edit delete reply
Aha. I was wondering if it would be this (or bi) or if she was simply willing to relax her comfort zone.
skrbunny 13th Sep 2022, 4:28 PM edit delete reply
if i was a baby trans with almost no understanding of LGBT+ stuff... this would have totally blown my mind... especially cos i thought that if you transition that nobody would want to be with me...
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