Comic 1165 - Forever

27th May 2019, 8:45 AM in Ch. 37 - Prom Night
Average Rating: 4.75 (8 votes)
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Author Notes:

Jocelyn 27th May 2019, 8:45 AM edit delete
Not a whole lot technically happens here; it's mostly for transitioning to the rest of this week's pages. I should remind you that no one's seen Maria in a while (apart from Ky who's not currently in the room anyway). Her blue hair is new to everyone. Chanel's recent haircut is likewise new to Maria.

It's also worth mentioning that Maria has not been good about keeping up with anyone, in general: a point that Chanel has recently been very concerned about.

So, yeah. It's probably safe to say they may need a minute to talk in private.

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bgb16999 27th May 2019, 9:05 AM edit delete reply
With all the other drama going on, it's nice to see a page that is just plain happy.
Anastasia 27th May 2019, 9:16 AM edit delete reply
Those two are so cute :3
Mavis the Rain Beau 27th May 2019, 11:04 AM edit delete reply
Thank you so much. They area too cute together (and you're the only webcomic I read that updated today)
Guest 27th May 2019, 1:43 PM edit delete reply
Rain and Gavin switched places since last page
Trilb 27th May 2019, 4:29 PM edit delete reply
I assume this is because they were facing to the left of Maria in a line - they would have to turn and move to face her, and Gavin had two sides to choose.
Guest 28th May 2019, 8:42 AM edit delete reply
Can you have a crush in a cartoon character?!? Maria looks precious <3
GuestGuest 28th May 2019, 10:16 AM edit delete reply
No, you can't do that.
DocMesa 28th May 2019, 7:28 PM edit delete reply
No, you can't do that. Gaaaah!
lare290 29th May 2019, 7:37 AM edit delete reply
Why not? Many people get crushes on fictional people and/or celebrities before people they know. I'm still on that stage.
Guest Q 28th May 2019, 8:42 AM edit delete reply
I didn't say it was wrong or wholly unacceptable to use the singular they. I was pointing out that it's not without drawbacks or questions. The fat jokes aren't mine. That was a reference to a prior conversation on how some people find the usage to be dubious.

Baron cites as precedent a usage in Middle English prose of the singular they. But that makes sense, unequivocally, only if we all go around speaking and writing like Chaucer all the time. But we don't do that. Don't get me wrong. Baron makes some very good points. But he gives short shrift to or ignores problems with such usage. English is a sexist language of a sexist culture. The singular they is a workaround to the deficit of a neutral or nonspecific pronoun. Baron wholly ignores comparison with other options to address the problem. His omissions leave something amiss. Hence, in spite of some very good arguments, he fails to close.

I'm not saying Baron is wholly wrong but we need to consider the questions he didn't. Can we be more concise? Can we leave less room for confusion? Is it best usage?

I just happen to like the option to say the person. It avoids potentail problems of the singular they. There may be other options as well.

So, pure assumption? No, you had Ky saying, "I usually just dress how I feel. If I feel femmy, I dress femmy. If I feel like guy, I dress like one. When it's black and white like that, it's easy. But I don't exactly choose how I'm going to feel. And when my look doesn't match how I feel, I get really uncomfortable. And every once in a while, I kinda feel like both ... or neither ... It's confusing, but it doesn't happen often." And you gave three different looks for Ky labeled girl mode, guy mode and androgynous. And Ky was wanting to ditch the dress in exchange for masculine costume. At that point the only sensible conclusion with what you gave us was that Ky was in boy mode. A tux wouldn't have been any better than a dress, if the person was in androgynous mode.

No, I wasn't calling Rain out for being disrespectful. I was calling her out for being obtuse on THIS ONE OCCASION. Even Rain can have a brain fart once in awhile.

But you blew all that out of the water when you introduced a new twist to Ky's character. You can change it up like that. YOU have that advantage. It's your webcomic. But, essentially, you're criticising me FOR NOT READING YOUR MIND. Nonsense.

And, no, the tux is not androgynous attire.
Jocelyn 28th May 2019, 10:17 AM edit delete reply
@Guest Q

"The singular they is a workaround to the deficit of a neutral or nonspecific pronoun." "Can we be more concise? Can we leave less room for confusion? Is it best usage?"
There are other options. Such as Xe or Zhe, but not everyone likes those. If that's what someone prefers, I'll use those for that person. If the person prefers they, then I'll use they (and there are many folks out there, who strongly prefer they). It doesn't matter what your reasons for not liking a certain pronoun are, if someone asks to be referred to as such, you do as they ask. That's pretty basic respect.

"I just happen to like the option to say the person."
Like, as in repeatedly saying, "the person said this" or "the person does that". I dunno. Maybe someone would be okay with that, but it sounds really dismissive to me. Especially, since the only reason to extensively do that is to avoid using someone's pronouns. I had a doctor do something similar to me once, actually. He asked if I went by any name besides Jocelyn, and not getting what he meant at the time, I just said I don't mind it being shortened to Lynn. He stopped talking to me completely after that, because if he couldn't call me by a male name (even though I'd legally changed it by that point), then he didn't want to talk to me. It turned an already bad situation into a much greater ordeal for me. It doesn't feel good when people don't treat you the way you ask to be treated.

"So, pure assumption? No"
Yes, actually. I've been saying they all chapter long. And at no point has anyone said this was boy mode. And in this case, it's okay to miss that and assume and be wrong. In fact, I expected a lot of folks to be wrong (and many were). It's an innocent mistake. You just have to correct yourself and start using the right pronouns going forward.

"I wasn't calling Rain out for being disrespectful. I was calling her out for being obtuse on THIS ONE OCCASION. Even Rain can have a brain fart once in awhile."
Your exact words were, and I quote, "Rain is just being stupid and already knows Ky is in boy mode. You say he. Dumbass." That's a pretty harsh choice words for thinking she's just having a brain fart. I mean, hey, brain farts happen. I'm sure you and every other reader has them, and lord knows I have them all the time. But it can be addressed without condescending or name calling.

"And, no, the tux is not androgynous attire."
That's not for anyone but the individual to decide. If Ky - or someone like Ky - feels that's an improvement and a step closer to the androgyny they seek, then the tux is doing it's job. It's like when a transphobe tries to tell me "but you'll never be a real woman". That's just their ignorant opinion. I know how I feel and I'm satisfied with how I feel, and no one can take that away from me. Likewise, Ky is happier and feeling better in that tux, and neither Drew nor anyone else can take that away from them. I mean, knowing Ky is doing better, what point is there in arguing over it? Let them be happy; that's all they want.

"But, essentially, you're criticising me FOR NOT READING YOUR MIND. Nonsense."
I'm not. I spoke to you because you were saying very disrespectful things that had the potential to affect the other readers. Whether it be your apprehension to singular they, or the uncalled for fat jokes (reference or not, it's still inappropriate), or the way you condescended other readers for disagreeing with you, and the aggressive way you presented all of it made for a really unpleasant read. So I stepped in, in the hopes that you'd dial it back. Instead, here we are almost a month later, and you're reopening the conversation on a new irrelevant page derailing the topic here.
Fox 28th May 2019, 6:06 PM edit delete reply
No one is always right, a mistake was made, own it and move on. Jocelyn said, "they" when referring to Ky constantly under the pages they were in, it's okay to have missed that, but doubling down is a bad look. Maybe let it go?
Nonsense Guest 12th Aug 2020, 8:31 PM edit delete reply
Hey, didn’t what’s-his-face guess that Maria would show up with blue hair?
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