Comic 889 - The Wrong Idea

30th Nov 2016, 11:57 PM in Ch. 30: Little Victories
The Wrong Idea
Average Rating: 4.78 (9 votes)
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Author Notes:

Jocelyn 30th Nov 2016, 11:57 PM edit delete
Jocelyn
I can't seem to figure out how to write a blurb for this one without spelling things out too much. I'd rather leave this one up to you for now. I feel like this could be a divisive page, but I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts are on Drew and/or Rudy here.


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Comments:

BlackSocks 1st Dec 2016, 12:43 AM edit delete reply
BlackSocks
My opinion is that, given Drew's upbringing and past, he has a valid concern. Has Rudy forgotten the school's attitude towards 'gays'? (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/227) It's not just about other people's opinions on Drew, Drew could get expelled.
Of course, Rudy's probably been annoyed at Drew for a while now, and jumped at the chance to tell him off.
Guest 1st Dec 2016, 1:09 AM edit delete reply
I think that Rudy is absolutely right in that Drew has no right to dictate what Ky wears to prom, and that in inviting them, Drew essentially signs up for Ky in whatever mode they're in that night. Drew needs to decide himself whether he wants to take that risk.

But, Rudy also needs to consider where Drew is coming from. He only started questioning his sexuality very recently, and being in such an oppressive environment as this school, of course he's going to have doubts. Drew isn't instantly going to be as sure of himself or as uncaring to other people's opinions as Rudy is right now. Presumably, Rudy has managed to accept himself for many years now, but Drew is only starting and the process isn't easy. I do think Drew needs to come to a decision whether he is ready to potentially face recrimination from his peers or decide to just not invite Ky at all and play it safe. It's a difficult decision, for sure, but Drew can't say "sorry, Ky, you absolutely have to wear a dress and be uncomfortable so that other people don't think I'm gay," especially considering how Ky has previously reacted to this exact scenario. It would be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Sora 1st Dec 2016, 2:18 AM edit delete reply
I don't post here often, but I feel like weighing in with my opinion here. The way I see it, this isn't a black and white scenario.

Drew: Honestly, I do think he is being really selfish here by trying to dictate what Ky should wear, especially with what recently happened to them in the past. However, his reasons for feeling like that aren't entirely unreasonable; he is obviously dealing with both internal and external homophobia, and the school isn't an environment where two boys could go to prom together without repercussions.

Rudy: Part of me does applaud Rudy for standing up for Ky like that and calling Drew out on his mindset, as it's obvious that it would only harm Ky in the long run. At the same time, however, Rudy should understand how difficult it is to start questioning and realizing your own sexuality, especially in an oppressive environment. Still, part of me thinks that he is aware of that and is getting both hurt/annoyed about how worried Drew is about being perceived as "gay."
Bizkit 1st Dec 2016, 2:29 AM edit delete reply
I agree with what BlackSocks said. If Ky, who is a girl, shows up wearing a tux at a Catholic school, there could be consequences.
Reimi 1st Dec 2016, 2:38 AM edit delete reply
Reimi
Heavy page, but it needed to be said. Both have valid points, the problem is, both are not paying much mind to the other. Rudy is more in the right here imo, but it is a Catholic school...
Rynn 1st Dec 2016, 2:45 AM edit delete reply
I honestly can see where both of them are coming from. Rudy is bringing up a very valid point that Drew should acknowledge, but it seems like something else might also be weighing on him, at least that how it came off as to me. At the same time, Drew has legitimate reasons to be concerned due to the way their school is. Is it something he needs to work past? Yes, but it's not something that's just going to go away in a heartbeat.
Nightsky 1st Dec 2016, 2:55 AM edit delete reply
Nightsky
While Rudy makes a good point in the second to last panel, I really can't blame Drew. I think it's less shame and more fear of how this will affect him. Drew's looking at actual punishment if Ky shows up in boy mode. Worst case scenario, the school expels him for breaking school policy, which screws whatever plans he might have for college.
Ruth 1st Dec 2016, 3:13 AM edit delete reply
Ruth
Rudy is laying down the law to Drew. And you can see it in their expressions that Drew is troubled by his concern about what other people are thinking about him, much to the detriment of his own happiness. And you can see the disappointment in Rudy too, not just because he actually cares about Drew's feelings, but also because he himself knows that he probably won't get invited to the prom, and wants to go so bad it hurts.
Guest 1st Dec 2016, 3:57 AM edit delete reply
I can kind of relate to Drew when I first thought I was aromantic. I was wanting to be completely sure because I was scared to be so contrary to what mainstream society is teaching us. I wanted to be thought of with love. I also get the unaccepting school environment. Especially at home. It has caused a lot of insecurity and lying. The lying to my parents really hurts. Eventually it does get easier because you do learn to accept yourself anschauen care less as to what others think. Rudynever really cared what others thought at the beginning and now. So it makes sense as to why he reacts like this. They do need to listen to each other though.
Ruth 1st Dec 2016, 4:10 AM edit delete reply
Ruth
I wish we could upvote the comments on this forum.
Noticenverz 1st Dec 2016, 4:00 AM edit delete reply
I think that Rudy here has said what was sort of the general consensus of the community. A lot of people had expressed a similar idea in comments. And I mostly agree. Rudy is coming at this with the perspective of "Drew needs to be more understanding and accepting", which is good, but given the environment of the school and some of the homophobia there and how Drew will probably not be able to take a guy, he (Drew) also has a valid concern. He just continues to word things exceedingly poorly. Rudy was right a couple pages ago when he said that this is definitely something Drew needs to discuss with Ky, who knows themself better than anyone else, and will know like how and what they are confortable with. It may turn out that Kylie is a girl that night and it works out for Drew, but it might not, and maybe some other plan can be arranged (like Drew going with Chanel and Maria with Ky and switch to the correct partners when they get thru the door.) Drew likes Ky in both modes, i guess, from what I have seen, but Rudy is right, I think Drew needs to be more understanding and not just expect his own opinion.
Lex-Kat 1st Dec 2016, 5:05 AM edit delete reply
Lex-Kat
I like a lot of the comments here. What Drew is saying is horrible... but it's also understandable due to where he's coming from and what is happening to him.

He's like a newborn child, learning the wrongs and rights of being himself. And myself, I love seeing his growth. But he still lives in fear, and he needs to shed that fear. And that is a hard thing to do.
sad-guest-friend 1st Dec 2016, 5:25 AM edit delete reply
OK but, panel 5 hurts so much if you think about it in the context of him talking about his parents... like Rudy and Maria's parents are claiming to be 'helping' them and that they 'love' them when really they can't stand their homosexuality and are ashamed of it... even though it makes them happy. It just hurts a little...

Also it applies to so many other things:
1. Maria and Emily's old relationship
2. Aiken and Jessica
3. Rain and Kellen

*cries*
AmbiguousMouse 3rd Dec 2016, 8:22 PM edit delete reply
I didn't even catch that, actually, but it makes the exchange take on a whole new level of depth. I feel bad for both of them.
Ranth 1st Dec 2016, 7:01 AM edit delete reply
The thing that rubs me wrong about Rudy's response is that Drew is obviously looking for advice and help. Telling Drew to come out when he's obviously not ready to is not helping. Nor is shaming him.

Worse, he's completely discounting Drew's experience and how he's feeling. Rudy was comfortable taking the plunge, but Drew isn't there yet. There is nothing invalid or wrong about Drew being afraid of being out. Or the massive stir and problems that taking Ky in boy mode will inevitably cause.


At least Drew is looking for help. It shows some awareness that he could hurt Ky by saying the wrong thing. And from what I see this is part of the poison that closets cause us.
AmbiguousMouse 3rd Dec 2016, 8:21 PM edit delete reply
My issue is... What, he couldn't wait a day or so and talk to Rain when she comes back to school? Rain has always shown willingness to help Drew out. It would make sense to go to her for this sort of advice. Instead he's going to Rudy, who among other things has made it explicit several times that he doesn't like Drew and doesn't want to treat him like a friend. Drew is doing a great thing looking for advice, but he's looking in exactly the wrong place, and it's not really fair to place all the blame on Rudy for reacting negatively here.
glasswings 1st Dec 2016, 11:35 AM edit delete reply
Stop it.

It hurts so much to see Drew so unfairly alone. Some cute caring boy had better ride up on a white horse and take him to some other school's prom.
Guest 1st Dec 2016, 1:31 PM edit delete reply
You bring up a good point, why can't the whole group just go to It's school prom and not worry about who they bring or anything.
Some Ed 19th Jun 2017, 12:30 PM edit delete reply
Someone seems to have missed a major plot point in this story. And of prom. Even if Ky's prom is like my public school prom was, they can't all go to that instead of the Catholic school prom: tickets could only be bought in pairs. While folk talked about 'crashing' prom, they still had to buy tickets. And most of them paired up with someone of a wrong for them gender so that they could only need to pay the cost of a single entry ticket, when such didn't exist.

From what I've heard of prom at my school, at other schools, and from TV, prom is very heavily focused on dating, with a very strong suggestion that the person you take to prom will be your life partner, despite the fact that rarely happens. And the chance that you'll break up with your partner at prom is at least competitive with the chance they'll be your life partner.

In short, a dance where everyone can go would not be prom at a Catholic school.
Damocles_Sword 1st Dec 2016, 5:03 PM edit delete reply
That was rather harsh of Rudy. Poor guy has his own insecurities and worries and goes to a friend for advice and perspective and gets treated like he was wearing a swastika arm band. I hope that Drew doesn't become the "straight" whipping boy of this series.
mecaterpillar 1st Dec 2016, 7:43 PM edit delete reply
Drew and Rudy have never been friends and from what I've seen Rudy has never had any qualms about treating Drew poorly. If I remember correctly, Rudy was quite dismissive of Drew's situation after the Halloween party. Whenever Rudy has spoken with Drew, I think he's always given short shrift to Drew's concerns and sometimes coming off as antagonistic towards him. Other main characters have usually ignored Drew but dealt with him much more fairly when they do interact. I actually have had the feeling that there must have been something in the past that caused Rudy to become dismissive of Drew's concerns in general and made him slightly antagonistic towards him.
Damocles_Sword 2nd Dec 2016, 4:41 PM edit delete reply
Going back over the comic and yeah, Rudy's kind of a jerk. Perhaps there is some bad blood, but I hope that Drew doesn't end up becoming a "bad guy" through this arc.
AmbiguousMouse 3rd Dec 2016, 8:16 PM edit delete reply
I think you're missing a point here. Rudy is neither being a jerk nor painting Drew in an objectively bad light. Rudy and Drew just *aren't friends*. And Drew is putting the pressure on Rudy to act like a friend, when Rudy doesn't want to be that to him. There's nothing wrong with just not wanting to be friends with somebody, or with keeping people you don't want to be friends with at an emotional distance. There's also nothing wrong with just being somebody that other person doesn't want to be friends with, though. The narrative isn't painting Drew as a one hundred percent bad person (even though he's in the wrong right now), it's just portraying Drew and Rudy as emotionally incompatible people.
darynluna 1st Dec 2016, 7:43 PM edit delete reply
i'm not sure inviting her to catholic prom is a good idea in the first place but presuming that's happening, ideally it seems like drew'd be like 'i support whatever you come as' and ky would be go as 'well i'll go as something that's safe for you'.

Despite the direct message in Rudy's words, the message is more implicit: 'Worry less about yourself and more about this person you claim to love'. More precisely, his concern with how focused Drew is on his own wellbeing and how disassociated he is with Ky's. It's a tricky situation but if the relationship is going to work, he needs more balance between protecting himself and caring for another.
Cerberus 5th Dec 2016, 1:52 PM edit delete reply
I'd be genuinely terrified if Ky answered that way, because it would mean they would be putting themselves through extreme dysphoria "for the one they loved" which is a thing genderfluid people are encouraged and forced to do all the time and I really don't want Ky being force-fed anymore of that abusive crap either from Drew or from society at large.
Fox 1st Dec 2016, 8:07 PM edit delete reply
My opinion, while Rudy is right objectively about Drew being unfair to Ky and that it's not ok to tell them how to dress because that is part of their gender fluidity and personal comfort, he is also wrong to treat Drew so unfairly. Drew has his own issues and could be punished for bringing boy Ky to prom and it's not wrong of Drew to want to avoid being ostracized and beaten up at school, he has the right to not be out if he's jeopardizing his safety by doing so. Besides, Drew isn't even sure what his orientation is, so he can't exactly be out anyway, he's still questioning. That said, I do think Rudy is right to point out the harmfuless of his ho mo phobic attitudes. Basically, Drew would be better off casting off his homophobia and the decent thing to do is treat Ky with kindness and respect their identity or end things with them, but none of this means Drew is obligated to be out before he is ready.
Fox 6th Dec 2016, 6:17 PM edit delete reply
I also wanted to add that gender fluidity is difficult for most people who don't have personal experience with it to understand, which is evident in how Rudy calls Ky "she" automatically, while saying Drew needs to respect Ky's gender. In doing so, Rudy is only doing a marginally better job of treating Ky with respect in my opinion. Honestly, Rudy doesn't exactly treat Ky as a boy in boy mode or as androgynous in androgynous mode either, he seems to automatically think of Ky as a girl and treats Ky as if their gender isn't as valid as his. Other than Rain and Emily, most of them seem to do this honestly. In fact, most of them treated Rain as a boy for the longest time too, so they in their ignorance aren't doing a very good job of being supportive and respectful either.
Guest 2nd Dec 2016, 3:29 AM edit delete reply
Drew is trying to control Ky and force them to do things they might not want to do. And he's only thinking about himself and what others might think of him and how his reputation might suffer, not about making Ky happy. Yes Rudy was pretty harsh in his wording, but honestly I think Ky deserves someone better who doesn't try to control them. Either that or Drew has to grow a LOT.
Guest 2nd Dec 2016, 3:31 AM edit delete reply
(same person here) and PLUS, Drew just straight up told Rudy that being gay is "wrong" so I really really don't blame Rudy for being angry and a bit rude.
Fay Onyx 2nd Dec 2016, 11:29 AM edit delete reply
The thing I notice is that it's not just that there are real things for Drew to be afraid of. The thing that Rudy is really right about is that Drew is staring at himself so much in his process of trying to figure himself out that he isn't thinking about Ky and Ky's feelings. His struggle with his internalized homophobia is potentially damaging to Ky and there are ways of expressing concerns about repercussions that are less self-centered but they do require a higher level of self-acceptance. If he instead said, "I'm bi, but I don't feel safe being out at this school. How should I handle this?" it would be better. I think Rudy is being triggered by the homophobia that he is expressing, but I do feel that Rudy is correctly calling attention to the fact that he needs to be considering Ky.

Personally, I think he could go to Ky and say, "I would be really excited to go to prom with you, but I'm not ready to be out as bi. Would you be comfortable committing to going in girl mode, or should the two of us do something different entirely?" Because honestly people spend a lot of time picking out and renting clothing for prom, so it's rarely a spur of the moment, "What do I feel like wearing?" thing.
Anon 2nd Dec 2016, 11:36 AM edit delete reply
Drew is actually behaving very responsibly here I think. He is making considerations, asking questions, delving his own feelings and weighing the consequences and possibilities of what the current environment is.

He isn't in a position of power to choose whom he associates with and maintain a place of living, employment and the like on his own. He has been raised in circumstances that would be considered unfortunate by the rest of the cast. Whereas Drew probably loves his family, his friends and doesn't want to throw away a lifetime worth of experiences for this new confusing thing he has the opportunity to explore. Most importantly He has NOT directed his "demand" towards Ky directly. Rudy was harsh but not unreasonable and Drew hasn't done anything flat out wrong... yet.
Guest 2nd Dec 2016, 12:05 PM edit delete reply
its also hard to tell how much of Drew's dialog reflects his character/personality, how much of it reflects authorial intent, and how much is left being unsaid. I interpreted the dialog as, "I want to ask Ky to prom, BUT I don't want to tell/force her to wear a dress, BUT if Ky doesn't wear a dress that would be of lasting consequence for myself whilst not particularly impacting her life to the same degree in the same way. AND Prom is just one night of my life and the potential benefit of going to Prom with a person I like ruining months if not years of my life is kinda short sighted and dangerous..." and there is even more to the catalogue of thoughts and feelings I'm projecting into Drew based on very little actual tangible dialog.
EpicSD 2nd Dec 2016, 2:49 PM edit delete reply
EpicSD
Rudy handles that really well, he wasn't rude at all he just stated fact. I understand where Drew is coming from but i gotta agree with Rudy here, Drew need to not worry about what Ky is wearing.

If theirs a prom at Ky's school couldn't they just go to that one?? like why don't the whole lot of them just go out together or something?

Cerberus 5th Dec 2016, 1:48 PM edit delete reply
Seriously. This homophobic prom is not the only game in town and if he's that deadly worried about coming out to this prom, then why not attend Ky's prom instead and save himself all the worry?

I mean, according to Ky, they roll reasonably well with Ky's fluidity so are unlikely to blink many eyes if Ky comes to the prom with them both in tuxes.
lia47 2nd Dec 2016, 9:50 PM edit delete reply
DAAAAAAAAMN RUDY!!!
Lemonado Girl 3rd Dec 2016, 10:53 PM edit delete reply
Lemonado Girl
15 points to...whatever house Rudy would be in. This is a lesson Drew needs to learn: he can't always be looking to shield himself from social penalty at the expense of others, especially not a significant other. One way or another, it looks as if he'll have to take the L here.
Cerberus 5th Dec 2016, 1:44 PM edit delete reply
I think Rudy is absolutely on point and it's because of one simple reason, it's not just been about prom.

Like, if this was just a worry about prom and being outed by prom and this was the first time Drew tried to pull something like this, using his fears of being outed to try and dictate Ky's behavior, it could be forgiven as a freak out.

But it's not. At this point, Drew has a long history of freaking out about being outed and responding immediately by trying to control and dictate Ky's gender identity or otherwise see it as negotiable or meaningless which is vile and abusive, especially when wielded against a baby gender-fluid who is nervous about ever being loved for who they are and whose friends can't even consistently see them as they are (I see you there, Rudy defaulting entirely to she for this conversation).

And I do mean he's fucked up on this before, lest we forget this comic:
http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/800/

And Ky has even told him that they feel not girl more days than they feel girl and yet he thinks its perfectly acceptable to try and dictate that Ky should <i>have</i> to wear a dress to protect his closet and go through extreme dysphoria and erasure from the person who is supposedly in love with them.

That's not love, it's abuse. And I get Drew's fear. He's a baby bi in an environment that is openly hostile to queer folks, a friend circle that is openly homophobic and school and family who'll happily try and ruin his life for being openly queer. But that fear doesn't give him the right to hurt another person and call it love.

And so yeah, Drew needed to get shut down and hard, because he keeps circling back to this idea that dictating who Ky "gets" to be is an okay thing to do and that habit needs to be broken once and for all.

And furthermore, he desperately needed that last line slammed home into his gut. If he's so desperately afraid of the consequences of being out then he's not ready to be out. And that's gonna mean not going to his usual hangouts where he's likely to bump into friends from school on dates and not going to things like prom.

Cause he needs to realize now, not later, not someday, but now, that Ky isn't just a girl who sometimes is a guy for his sexual jollies, but a genderfluid person whose identity is not up to them and especially not up to him to control. Or else he needs to stop dating Ky and be with someone who respects them as a person instead.
Enter the Freak 15th Dec 2016, 2:23 AM edit delete reply
Honestly I feel like this is walking a very thin line, because while Rudy's points are very correct, other pressures are bearing down on the situation. One pushes Drew out of closet that he hasnt even figured out yet and could potentially harm him and Ky's relationship more than him asking for them to wear a certian item of clothing for a night. Drew should talk to ky about it until they can come to a term of agreement for what ever situation would happen.
Some Ed 17th Jun 2017, 5:21 AM edit delete reply
Someone mentioned a concern about Drew being expelled for being gay. That's not a problem. At prom, they're something like 1-3 weeks from graduation. Being seen as gay at prom, according to the school officials, will just prevent Drew from having any special role, such as how Emily lost valedictorian over being pregnant.

Getting beat up over being gay. That's a concern. Drew's been shown to be at least somewhat subject to bullies. Being seen as gay would make him a target.

Worse, Ky doesn't want to be rejected from his prom because he's in boy mode. I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure to be a girl triggered boy mode. (That is, "can you guarantee you'll be in girl mode" causes a nigh guaranteed boy mode on that day.)

IMHO, Drew's best plan is to forget about prom. Ask Ky out on a date that night. Just... not to prom. If she asks, let her know that it's prom night, but most of the people there wouldn't accept who she is so he doesn't want to be there, he wants to be where she's accepted.
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