Comic 856 - Discussions

7th Jul 2016, 9:25 PM in Ch. 29: Transitions
Discussions
Average Rating: 5 (6 votes)
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Author Notes:

Jocelyn 7th Jul 2016, 9:25 PM edit delete
Jocelyn
Hormones are a hell of a drug. XD

I've had a number of readers announce recently that they just started hormones or were about to start very soon. This page is dedicated to you. Happy second puberty, folks. ^_^


©2004-2016
Rain, all characters and all other aspects of the story are copyright material belonging to me.

Speaking of big, upcoming events pertaining to transition: as I've been saying for a while now I'll be going for SRS on July 26th. But with my insurance finally authorizing it earlier this week (at the last possible second), it's a little more real now. I mean, I still feel like I'm going to wake up any moment and find that none of this has ever happened, but I think this is as real as it gets. It's exciting and it's wonderful and it's really scary and I'd expect nothing less. ^_^

Let's get to how this affects the comic though. If you've been with me long enough to remember my cancer surgeries, you know there's going to be a lengthy hiatus for my recovery. I probably won't feel up to drawing much. Fortunately, Chapter 29 wraps up next week. So unlike my previous surgeries which cut things off awkwardly mid-chapter, this break will be a little more controlled (like any other planned hiatus). The comic will return with Chapter 30, but I don't know when. That depends on how long it takes for me to feel like I can sit upright and draw for extended periods again. I will keep you posted throughout my recovery though, so you know when that will be.

In fact, I'll try to keep you entertained even through my recovery. I mean, I plan to take this as a much needed vacation. I have a nice pile of games I've been setting aside for this moment, and hours and hours of anime I've been meaning to watch for a while. But all play and no work makes Lynn stir crazy. So I will probably do something. Something pertaining to writing, most likely. Prose, maybe? Raindom Facts? 30 Day Challenges? I don't know yet. I'll figure it out. But I won't leave you hanging indefinitely; I just can't do that.

Anyway, you support is still (and will always be) welcome. ^_^

You can donate if you like - http://www.gofundme.com/1t9t40
Buy Rain: Vol. 1, 2 and/or 3 - http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/LittleLynn84
We've got Pride wristbands/bracelets - https://www.etsy.com/shop/RainComicStore
Also t-shirts/mugs/notebooks/etc - http://www.redbubble.com/people/littlelynn84

I'd also like to mention that a friend and reader set up a Discord server for Rain. So if you'd like to chat with other readers in real time, or at least, have a safe space to discuss other non-comic things, you should check it out here - https://discord.gg/MKgt7fc
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Comments:

Guest 7th Jul 2016, 9:56 PM edit delete reply
Rain looks so cute in panel 4!!!
Emerald Kitten-Tail 11th Jul 2016, 5:24 PM edit delete reply
totally!! I actually think she looks cute in that panel then she did with longer hair.
summer 7th Jul 2016, 10:21 PM edit delete reply
Started my hormones in april 2015.
Callisto 9th Jul 2016, 4:43 PM edit delete reply
Congrats, Summer! I hope you are progressing well. I started mine in December of 2013 and things are going swimmingly, I think. ^_^
Royal Dutch Fleet Air Arm 7th Jul 2016, 10:54 PM edit delete reply
Is it me, or has this comic gone really SJW? I'm all for diversity, but I mean, 1 or 2 Cis-gender guys actually being supportive? And also painting all religion as "bad"? I mean if you ask me, there's only so much diversity in this comic to appease the radical SJWs. Again, all for diversity, but don't do it for the sake of being diverse. Make it have a point. And also don't paint almost everyone who's outside the LGTB spectrum as cartoony villains. Do such "villains" (aka Douchecastles) exist? Yes, of course. It's a sad reality, but this comic paints nearly everybody outside the LGBT spectrum as villains. Not people, with feelings and fears of their own, but as villains. Sorry for the ramble, but that's just my opinion. I'll go fly a Sea Fury Mk. V now.
Everyone 8th Jul 2016, 12:17 AM edit delete reply
Christ, what an asshole.
Reimi 8th Jul 2016, 1:19 AM edit delete reply
Reimi
Well played Everyone, well played...
Guest 8th Jul 2016, 5:42 AM edit delete reply
Genuine criticism doesn't make this guy an asshole. Don't take it as a personal insult when it's not directed at you
Samantha 8th Jul 2016, 6:55 AM edit delete reply
:rolls eyes:

Typical. Whatever happened to "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? Nope, now nobody can have any dissent without small-minded people calling them "asshole" at best, and at worst trying to get them fired.

Also, I had to look up what SJW meant. It's valid criticism, except bro eventually became supportive, previous best friends are supportive, and the other cisgender people don't know Rain's story. So really, it's kinda a matter of condemning ignorance as the same as intolerance. If I were to mistakenly ask a girl who was lesbian on a date, this would not be because I was harassing lesbians, but because I wrongly thought she was straight. Most of the cast actually falls in this category. They believe she is a girl, because she passes. The others believe she is a girl because transgender girls are girls. Few of them call her a boy. Those ones probably are villains.
Fairportfan 8th Jul 2016, 1:16 AM edit delete reply
"SJW" is the Godwin codeword of gender issues.

Of coures, it's possible to go way too far the other way, as Tat Ishida has kver at "Sinfest", too.
Samantha 8th Jul 2016, 7:05 AM edit delete reply
Wikipedia describes the actual problem of the term.

"The accusation of being an SJW carries implications of pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction,[4] and being engaged in disingenuous social justice arguments or activism to raise personal reputation.[5]"

Being there for social justice is fine, as long as it is your personal belief set (it is, as Jocelyn is supporting her own cause) and not a shallow attempt to appear relevant or decent (think Al Gore, and his speeches about the environment while having an incredibly high carbon footprint).

Bottom line, a real social justice warrior genuinely cares about issues. A SJW that we criticize, is a hypocrite who wants everyone else to care about issues they in their heart don't.
Callisto 8th Jul 2016, 5:39 PM edit delete reply
Of course, the fact that the term is almost universally used by impotent children to describe progressive causes that they just don't like? That doesn't do much to lend it any cachet. Ultimately its association with the idiocy of Gamergate has permanently aliased "SJW" to "Someone who isn't an asshole (because the person who wrote this is)" in the minds of any moderately non-sociopathic, remotely mature reader.

Of course it doesn't help that some reader immediately seems to characterize it as free speech every time the idiotic rant of some 'gator is criticized, rightly, as you did. It seems that silliness travels in packs these days.

Bottom line, anybody who uses the term in a nonironic sense should be ready to never be taken seriously in any discussion ever again, because they have just, inadvertently or otherwise, allied themselves with some of the most disgusting people on the internet, and that is no mean feat.
Sarah 8th Jul 2016, 1:41 AM edit delete reply
Three dimensional cishet (as far as we know) characters:

Gavin (Duh)
Gavin's mom
Aiken. (Imperfect but working on it)
Kellen (Debatable, but she's definitely got feelings and fears)
Chase (Has feelings, is just an immature jerk. Definitely has fears.)
Brother Arthur
Allison
Debbie (Say what you like, she cares at least a bit about Emily despite everything.)
Holly (May not fully count, but she's nice)
Devon (Ignorant maybe, but not a bad guy)

And there are probably more. Jocelyn is a great writer. She's constructed real people here. Some real cishet people are ignorant jerks. So are some LGBT+ people. And in a comic about LGBT+ issues, you can't talk about homophobia without homophobes.
glasswings 8th Jul 2016, 3:08 AM edit delete reply
It's a queer comic. If you feel bad about the representation of non-queer people in a queer story, perhaps that can give you a tiny bit of empathy for what it's like when the tables are the other way around.

But, whatever, let's look at your accusation. The major non-queer characters are Gavin, Kellen, Aiken, Chad. Gavin's a great dude, Kellen and Aiken are complicated, Chad... okay, yes, Chad is 100% an unwashed butt.

Fr. Quentin's sexuality hasn't been touched upon (and is pretty much irrelevant). Him being villainous, really just stubborn and out of touch, is largely for comedic value.

The joke on this page is a slightly subtle one about bodies being kinda awkward and not always polite conversation, and cis and trans women having different experiences but that being okay. Not terribly funny, but slice-of-life honest, and that's mostly what Rain is about.

It's a slice-of-life story about being queer and life turning out okay. If that's not the story you really need to hear, it's okay to go fly imaginary airplanes or whatever helps you through rough spots in your life.

<3
glasswings 8th Jul 2016, 3:09 AM edit delete reply
oops, I got Chase mixed up with Chad Thundercock
Sophi 8th Jul 2016, 9:03 AM edit delete reply
You are clearly not the intended audience of this comic. (I am making the assumption here that you are a cis, heterosexual man. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but my point still holds for others.) There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of comics out there with no queer characters at all, let alone queer and trans protagonists, and characters representing so many individual minorities. Now look deep into your heart, and ask yourself what differs in this case from your argument. Perhaps now you can understand why we might be angered to have such little representation of our own (not to mention the fact there are several cis & heterosexual characters in this comic you've seemingly forgotten).
Queer people are allowed to make media with queer characters representing ourselves. You are more than welcome to consume such media, but you are not the target audience and thus it's not your place to criticise something that wasn't made for you. In the same way, it is not my place as a caucasian woman to criticise Beyoncé's Lemonade album, as I am not a PoC.
As an aside, I would not use the phrase "S.J.W" if you wish to have a meaningful discussion. It has been a callsign of internet harassment against queer people for some time, in the same way as the word "transgenders" used as a noun is almost exclusively is a precursor to bigotry, and will lead to assumptions against you that you would probably rather were not made.
Ranth 8th Jul 2016, 2:09 PM edit delete reply
From my experiences in high school, the climate at Rain's school was not unusual a decade ago. From the main character's point of view or even Drew's point of view, those who would harass LGBT people are generally a lot more vocal and visible than allies. Even in places where the administration doesn't put up with such harassment, most schools have great difficulty stamping it out.

So the crowd sets the background radiation for the story, and is relatively tame. The hostile secondary characters all have things defining them besides their hostile interactions, even Kellen who is the least popular character right now.
Artorigus 8th Jul 2016, 9:31 PM edit delete reply
So, if somebody makes a neonazi-centric book praising racism, and you're not a racist neonazi, you have no right to criticize the book or the ideas contained therein? Or, for perhaps a more directly relevant example, do you think you aren't allowed to criticize ciscentricism in media if you're not cis? Because if you honestly believe what you just said but disagree with those, you're being a hypocrite. Criticism isn't and can't be "reserved" based on things like that. Literally the entire point of intellectual debate (which proper criticism is meant to engender) is to bring in multiple viewpoints so that all people involved can take the good parts from each position and get closer to the truth, *not* to convince the "overprivileged" that they're automatically wrong about every single thing they haven't directly suffered from and that they shouldn't be allowed to take part in discussions about real issues. Actually, being frank, discouraging people from taking part in open conversation is a pretty big part of why progress towards change is so slow.

As a person of color, I *want* caucasian people who have criticisms of Lemonade to be able to voice them without getting shouted down or told they don't have the right to speak. Now you can feel free to criticize their criticisms, including pointing out if they *don't* really understand, but that's not the same thing as automatically calling their position invalid because they're white and COULDN'T understand or something equally absurd.

And I think a lot of the reason people always scoff at others who use the "free speech" defense is that they don't really understand the point of allowing everyone to engage in open and honest communication. When you shout people down and censor them for having what you see as wrong/bad ideas, you aren't just being an arse, you're directly stymying social progress. Because we've spent a lot of history with social stigmatism, censorship, and even murder being the response to things we now agree with, like supporting homosexual rights, ending slavery and child labor, and so many others. What people forget is that most people agreed with those things, and that even if society is improving relative to those times, human beings as a species are not inherently better than we were back then. Shouting down and censoring ideas you disagree with rather than engaging them honestly is just perpetuating the cycle of hatred and stagnation in our world. I'm not saying we actually have to *agree* with all of the ideas we're presented with - I've never once heard a neonazi say anything I agreed with even after giving it the most honest of consideration - but calling people in certain positions out as not being allowed to have or express their opinions and viewpoints on things will make us no better than the oppressors of history (who, mind you, were just as often the common citizen; it's not like we're somehow better for trying to oppress people from within society rather than from a government position, because that's been done before and it's been just as terrible).
Callisto 8th Jul 2016, 10:38 PM edit delete reply
People are scoffing at the evoking of free speech because A) this is a private forum and free speech does not apply and B) Nobody has advocated that he be silencedmore despite the idiocy of his viewpoint and the inflammatory nature of its delivery.
Pip 8th Jul 2016, 9:14 PM edit delete reply
And what, may I ask, is wrong with a sincere "social justice warrior"? A poorly thought out criticism used by people who believe that apathy and ignorance are a virtue. Newsflash: THEY'RE NOT.

Ignore the idiotic comments Jocelyn, your work is awesome! Keep warrioring! Go the Social Justice League! ;D
Dutch Royal Fleet Air Arm 8th Jul 2016, 11:12 PM edit delete reply
Let me finish my point. As someone who studies the art of stories (who also happens to be gay for all of you sayin I'm a neonazi or some shit). It just feels to me (if you have a different interpretation, that's fine) that by this comics logic, everyone who disagrees at least 1% with the LGBT community is treated like a cartoon villain. Like this, for example: "Hahaha LGBT-Man/Woman/Whatever, I disagree with you about one thing, look at how evil I am!". Do shitheads exist who discriminate? Sure, and they're douches for that. About that "Cis=almost always evil" angle, that's how I read it, that doesn't mean you have to read it the same way or even agree with me. I'm just stating what I think, not what you should think or agree with, but what I think. And also, everything has to be allowed to be criticized or free speech means nothing. The problem I have with SJWs is that most of them (not all of them, of course) can't stand the arguments from the other side. For example, I'm gay, but I don't think Same-sex marriages should be viewed as the "norm" (because of reproduction issues). Does that mean I wanna kill ya if you're a girl and ya marry a girl? No, you do what you wanna do if it makes ya happy and you don't kill people. But for saying you're progressive, you should allow people with different opinions to have those opinions. Also, you should be allowed to think differently from what someone writes, because if you 100% of the time agree with the author of the book/comic/whatever you'll get a Germany '33 problem. Sorry for the long post, and again you don't have to agree with me, but you should let me voice my opinion at least. I'm gonna go fly a Harrier Jet against the Argies above the Falklands now.
Dutch Royal Fleet Air Arm 8th Jul 2016, 11:20 PM edit delete reply
Als, feel open to disagree with me, but dont call me shithead/neonazi/Donald Drumpf/LGBTphobic just for having a different opinion. Seriously, feel free to disagree with me, but make points, not swear words.
Sarah 9th Jul 2016, 12:12 AM edit delete reply
Nobody was calling you a Neonazi. That was one person criticizing minutiae in another person's point in the heart of this discussion, which is too quickly approaching flame war territory.
I could be wrong, but I don't think most of the opinions people have been expressing about this are that different. It's kinda like how most Americans have relatively similar stances on gun rights and abortion (RELATIVELY) while the politicians present everything as a debate with only two very extreme sides.
Callisto 9th Jul 2016, 12:26 AM edit delete reply
Begging for civility after having opened the discussion by using SJW as a pejorative seems somewhat disingenuous.
Artorigus 9th Jul 2016, 5:28 AM edit delete reply
I think I can take the blame for that one. I wasn't trying to actually call anyone a neonazi, it's a "point of comparison" group I basically picked out of a hat to represent a group that almost everybody in modern society would disagree with. It would've worked just as well for a number of other extremist groups, that was just the first and most obvious one that came to mind for the example. I wasn't meaning to call you part of that group, just using a super extreme example to illustrate my disagreement with Sophi's point. (For the record, while I disagree with you too on the SJW thing, I was kind of on your side there; Sophi basically said you don't have the right to criticize a trans comic if you're not trans, which I was disagreeing with.)
Jocelyn 9th Jul 2016, 3:37 AM edit delete reply
Jocelyn
Whoa. I walked away at the wrong time... O_O

To hopefully answer a few of your initial quesions, Dutch Royal Fleet Air Arm:

"...painting all religion as "bad"?"
Except for Brother Arthur, whose kind nature is meant to offset Father Quenton's scathing personality. For what it's worth, I don't believe religion is inherently bad. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school for many years. But I had probably more good experiences than bad. It's just that bad parts stand out more (I could say the same usually applies for fiction too). And while there are bad apples among religious folk (as with any group of people) they are the minority (albeit, unfortunately a very vocal minority). I'm not trying to paint Catholicism (or any religion) as bad, but I do wish to portray certain attitudes very commonly found in these sorts of environments, and highlight the problems they cause.


"I mean if you ask me, there's only so much diversity in this comic to appease the radical SJWs."
Actually, there's only so much diversity in this comic because that's how I wanted to write it. I like writing queer and trans characters, so there are a number of queer and trans characters in the cast (the same goes for pretty much any of my stories). The cast was quite diverse even before I started posting the comic and having any idea this would be something people might want to read. And I added more to the story when I learned more that I wanted to talk about. Yes, I do want as many readers to feel included and represented as possible. But I'm not necessarily trying to appease anyone. I just want to write the kind of thing I would want to read, and hopefully, it ends up being the kind of thing other people want to read. And if I can educate a little while I entertain, even better. ^_^


"It's a sad reality, but this comic paints nearly everybody outside the LGBT spectrum as villains. Not people, with feelings and fears of their own, but as villains."
Quite the contrary! This comic has surprisingly few true villains for having a cast as large as it is. In fact, I don't consider anyone in the story to really be villainous. Most antagonistic characters are intentionally depicted with redeeming values. See Gavin and Aiken for example, who were both antagonists earlier in the story. They did bad but very human things. But they realized their errors, grew from those realizations, and tried (or are still trying) to better themselves. I'm not saying every antagonist will follow exactly in suit, but I'm actually making a very pointed effort to make sure that no characters are truly "evil". It won't always excuse their actions, but everyone has their motivations and thought processes. (And while I'd love to discuss some of the other more current antagonists, I'm afraid of dipping into spoiler territory, so I'd rather refrain for now.)

For what it's worth, the LGBT+ protagonists aren't exactly saints either. Generally good-natured kids, yes, but not without their own flaws. The point is that I try to make all of the characters as human as I can. Any characters that might seem one-dimensional right now probably just haven't been fully explored yet.



I hope that clears some things up. You are welcome to disagree, of course, but this is more or less my thought process with writing the comic. :)
Dutch Royal Fleet Air Arm 9th Jul 2016, 1:21 PM edit delete reply
Good argument Jocelyn, and now I can see some aspects of the story a in a different light and understand the decisions behind them. So, yeah thanks for that, and also for not calling me Donald Drumpf because of a difference of opinion regarding the story. I'm always glad when an author is respectful with readers who have different interpretations of the story. Oh, I'm also sorry for kinda starting a flame war in the comments. So yeah, as we say in the Netherlands, sorry voor dat dingetje. I'm gonna go fly a Firefly Mk. V now.
Devgirl Neko 8th Jul 2016, 12:32 AM edit delete reply
Devgirl Neko
Wow, speaking of hormones, today's my first day on estrogen patches! So exciting! :D
j-eagle12212012 8th Jul 2016, 10:26 AM edit delete reply
j-eagle12212012
Yay! congrats fellow pegasister
Callisto 9th Jul 2016, 7:56 AM edit delete reply
Congrats! A very important day. :D
Sarah 8th Jul 2016, 12:33 AM edit delete reply
@jocelyn Amen. Amen.
Evalyn-Averis 8th Jul 2016, 1:10 AM edit delete reply
Just passed six months on hormones earlier this week. It really is like jenn.... no, Jessica! says, although I will admit that my chest doesn't feel like death unless unexpected (or even expectedly) squishified.
Weepy though, Check check.
Peeing every fifteen minutes, eeh, more like every hour, check.
Some of the best emotional highs of my life, quintuple check.
Feeling less dysphoric and just better in my skin, Check.
They were a long time coming, but they are everything you hoped for and more.
Reimi 8th Jul 2016, 1:18 AM edit delete reply
Reimi
March 2016 is when I started, 120 days on HRT today, and she isn't kidding about the Breast pain... Nothing like getting woken up by your dog sleep running across your chest in your bed...

Still, I can see the results, my breasts are forming, they jiggle now without a bra on. I'm starting to get an hourglass shape as I continue my controlled slim down to my ideal female weight. My hips may not be getting wider (hard to tell since I am down 40+ pounds from 8 months ago) but I do still have an ass, which I did not still have last time I weighed this little. Facial changes are hard to spot, but again, I blame that more so on my lower weight than anything. I plan to start cycling 5-10 pounds once I hit my ideal weight to encourage fat redistribution.

There, my 4 month update, enjoy!
Evalyn-Averis 8th Jul 2016, 1:22 AM edit delete reply
Wow, as confident as that profile picture as always. Good on ya for being so good about your own health.

Oh, and grats about the four months :D
Reimi 8th Jul 2016, 7:38 AM edit delete reply
Reimi
Thanks ^_^
Royal Dutch Fleet Air Arm 8th Jul 2016, 11:15 PM edit delete reply
Well done and best wishes for the future!
Lemonado Girl 8th Jul 2016, 2:32 AM edit delete reply
Lemonado Girl
Uuuuugh I want to start hormones so badly but physical transition only becomes even a remote possibility at the end of fall semester...
Sarah 8th Jul 2016, 3:16 AM edit delete reply
Yes... Yes... Write all the things. Like something for Magical perhaps?
Katherine 8th Jul 2016, 6:55 PM edit delete reply
Ooh, yes! Please continue Magical! Also, congratulations, and good luck with your surgery. I can only imagine Rain's excitement and wonder if she heard the news.
Rain Fan :) 8th Jul 2016, 7:31 PM edit delete reply
YES PLEASE CONTINUE MAGICAL I LOVE IT
HinataTlaltelpa 8th Jul 2016, 4:32 AM edit delete reply
HinataTlaltelpa
I wonder what hormones would do to a female...
Sophi 8th Jul 2016, 8:49 AM edit delete reply
If by that you mean cis women (I'm assuming ignorance rather than intended offence by implying trans women are not female), it would do very little compared to the variations that already happen as part of the menstrual cycle, during which levels of oestrogens vary quite a lot, and pregnancy, when they go off the scale. In fact many cis women are on the oestrogen part of the hormones that trans women take: the Pill. Not to mention that cis women often take HRT after a hysterectomy or post-menopause to regulate their hormone levels. The only real side effects would be if they took Spironolactone, the main anti-androgen used for HRT for trans women, which is a diuretic, mildly affecting your liver and hence making you need to pee more often. Hormonally, cis women have a very small amount of testosterone, but the effect of antiandrogens would be small.
{{ I am not a doctor do not take any of this as medical advice }}
SayaHeart 8th Jul 2016, 5:20 AM edit delete reply
SayaHeart
yup :) that's pretty much how mine went ^~^ 3 years this Aug. Best of luck and hugs to everyone out there trying/starting ♥
Pip 8th Jul 2016, 9:19 PM edit delete reply
Congratulations Jocelyn!! Such exciting news :D
Guest 8th Jul 2016, 9:21 PM edit delete reply
I would like to see a transgender FTM character at some point, even if just on the side! Maybe we have already, and he's slipping my memory, but regardless, I'd like to see more of that character or a new one altogether!
Callisto 8th Jul 2016, 9:35 PM edit delete reply
We do have one. The doc. :)
Guest 8th Jul 2016, 10:39 PM edit delete reply
OOOOOH WOW I TOTALLY FORGOT ALL ABOUT VINCENT!!! THANK YOU!
Jack 9th Jul 2016, 1:49 PM edit delete reply
I would also like to see more from an FtM perspective. I am thoroughly enjoying the comic as is though! :D
Liliana 9th Jul 2016, 7:24 AM edit delete reply
Congratulations on the upcoming SRS Lynn!!! Good Luck!!!
BillycannotFly 9th Jul 2016, 4:01 PM edit delete reply
Speaking of hormones, my doctor just sent in a referral, so by this time next year, I should be on testosterone just in time for college.
atomicdunce 10th Jul 2016, 5:42 AM edit delete reply
First Endo Appt on July 22nd...
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